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To bracket or not to bracket?????

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  • To bracket or not to bracket?????

    I have a 1977 25 hull that I bought years ago from another Classic Mako member out of Baltimore. It has been in storage for the past 5ish years awaiting a complete refit. I hope that I will have all of my other projects completed and be able to start on it next fall. I have always had it in my head to do a full transom with a pair of four strokes hanging on an Armstrong bracket. I'm friends with Phin who built the 25 Mojo, when I mentioned this to him he was against it. His thought was to do something similar to what he had done on Mojo but with some modifications. He said he did not like the way a bracketed boat handled. I respect his opinion but also wanted to get some other Mako owners to weigh in on the subject. If I do not put a bracket on the boat I will still go with a pair of four strokes but with a little omage to a 27 Conch. So lets stir the pot a little and let me know what y'all think. Pros, cons, advantages, disadvantages. I would love to hear everything so that I can use the information to plan my build.

  • #2
    I am firmly anti-bracket. A friend of mine had one of those hulls and removed the shin buster cooler across the middle of the back of the boat and put a pair of 150s on the back. It was a beast of a boat but unfortunately the engines were Fichts and he was fukt. He sold it a couple of years later.

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    • #3
      Yep, "Stir the pot" you will, kinda like the single vs twin engine opinions.

      I'm not partial one way or the other, but then we've been running twins off the transom for more than 30 years. In addition, I have not run nor fished off a bracketed boat so I'm short on comparison data.

      A customer of mine, who owned either a 241b or 261b (sorry, don't know which) tuna fished with me a while back. During the trip he commented that his boat did not maneuver as nimblely when fighting fish and docking. He claimed that the backwash from the propellers inhibited backing down and spinning the hull. He was shocked when I spun the bow off a tuna that was sounding amidships under the hull.

      Because of the narrow hull of the old 25, I'm restricted to lighter four strokes and as a result run a pair of Suzuki/Johnson DF140s. They weigh 410# each and are about as heavy as I would want to go without adding a floatation bracket.

      If you go with heavier motors, I should think you will want to add floatation. As I recall, Phin recognized the need and extended his hull. I imagine the bracket people have engineered tubs that do not conflict with the backwash, but it would be worth investigating.

      Good luck! Breath new life into that old girl. You won't be disappointed. Hope this helps.
      Ole Joe
      Just floundering around
      White Hall & Ocean City, Maryland
      1978 Mako 25

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      • #4
        quote:


        Originally posted by mako224


        I am firmly anti-bracket. A friend of mine had one of those hulls and removed the shin buster cooler across the middle of the back of the boat and put a pair of 150s on the back. It was a beast of a boat but unfortunately the engines were Fichts and he was fukt. He sold it a couple of years later.



        How does any of that justify anti bracket? Not being rude at all but maybe you forgot to add why you are anti bracket []

        Palm....twin 4 strokes on a bracket may be a bit much. Single 4 stroke on a bracket is doable . From everyone I talked to the benefits out weigh the cons. I have heared the same to maneuvering at the dock and backing up.
        1984 Mako 238 WA [br]2015 Suzuki 250 APX[br]Central PA/OCMD[br]http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35081[br]

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        • #5
          I believe that I am wrong concerning Phil lengthening his hull. I just did a quick scan of his thread and it looks like he did not.

          WOW! What a job he did on that old gal. Beautiful.
          Ole Joe
          Just floundering around
          White Hall & Ocean City, Maryland
          1978 Mako 25

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          • #6
            Alright!!!! This is what I wanted to start hearing. I've got 2? anti-brackect (not sure if Flounder says no to the bracket or let the way I will use the boat dictate) and 1 pro bracket? (not much to back up why?) Looking at a text that Phin sent me he sugessted extending the hull 12" and building a "bracket" with a Euro-style transom. I respect his knowledge but I also know what it took to build the Mojo! So with this being said, newer 4 strokes are going to weigh more than what the boat was designed for, so can it be done without completely throwing off the CG? Does a bracket designed to "float" the weight of these 4 strokes help keep the CG where it needs to be? I am pretty set on twins due to the fact that I will be fishing anywhere from 30 to 50 miles from the hill. I really want that security. Keep the info coming!!!! Thanks

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            • #7
              I was not being honest when I said that I was not partial one way or the other. I do prefer having the motors hung on the transom because the boat is so nimble for a 25' deep vee. And, I believe that the nimble handling results from the power being close to the center of gravity, right against the hull. Example, slide a 10 lb weight sideways using a 2 foot stick holding onto one end of the stick vs putting your hand against the weight and moving it.

              My apology.

              However, because you implied the desire to go with larger twins, I didn't want to discourage that while wanting to make sure you understood the need for extra floatation as well as the short-comings of brackets.

              I totally agree with extending the hull.
              Ole Joe
              Just floundering around
              White Hall & Ocean City, Maryland
              1978 Mako 25

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              • #8
                In my mind I would want to move the tank forward and use a bracket without a giant "flotation" chamber or have a hull extension.

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                • #9
                  Im pro bracket, move tank forward(if redoing tank) and do every other weight shifting thing thats mentioned on the site(move batteries etc). Then go with a big wide flotation tub, this will help the deck drains while at rest. With twins maneuverability is pretty easy compared to a single. A bracket makes it worse than transom mounted but better than a single.

                  The amount of space it frees up is wonderful plus an enclosed transom is nice on rough days. On my 231 I left the transom open for easy diving. Youll want wedges on the bracket to allow some engine tuck or design a bracket with say 20 of angle where the engines mount, therefore avoiding wedges.

                  The only downside to a bracket that Ive encountered is if you get a fish close to the boat and it runs and youve got to work it around the motors its now a 3 longer reach. If youre fishing 5 rods its tough. With 7 not so bad
                  1989 Mako 261[br]SOLD - 1987 231 restore/rebuild http://classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46836&whichpage=1[br]

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                  • #10
                    Another pro vote for a bracket. I researched and debated it for years but for a 23+ foot boat I coulnd't find any negative other then a few already listed but the pros far outweighed and small inconvenience with having the motor farther back. There is NO perfect boat and if you are curious about performance, check out Competition boats which are damn near clone of our 25's.




                    1978 Mako 25 - Blind Hog
                    1985 Mako 20c - sold
                    Fort Walton Beach, FL
                    http://www.classicmako.com/forum/top...TOPIC_ID=42841

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                    • #11
                      Pro Bracket and searched long and hard for my bracketed Mako. I think it comes down to type of fishing and how you use your boat. I do alot of bottom fishing in the Gulf of Mexico, and I believe in typical conditions here the best way to stay over a wreck is azz end into chop with boat in reverse to hold over spot. I am much more comfortable doing that with a full transom and bracket than with open transom.

                      We also play alot in our boat with 10 & 12 yr old boys, and whether swimming in the river or playing at sandbars and barrier islands the bracket makes it much easier getting in and out of the boat.

                      I have heard people debate about fishability and landing big fish with a bracketed boat, but we have never had an instance were the bracket made things more challenging. That said we have been trying land land billfish either. I haven't fished my bracketed boat, but I have plenty of experience with friends; Mako's, Regulator, and ProLine.
                      \'93 241 https://forum.classicmako.com/forum/...etting-started
                      \'82 224 - Mobile, AL Gone but NEVER Forgotten - https://forum.classicmako.com/forum/...indshield-tank

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                      • #12
                        Sailor,

                        You need to hurry up and finish yours. You will have the benefit of running and handling the 25 in both configurations. We'd benefit from an analysis.

                        BTW, the work on your boat is beautiful. Not sure the inclusion of "Hog" remains appropriate.
                        Ole Joe
                        Just floundering around
                        White Hall & Ocean City, Maryland
                        1978 Mako 25

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:


                          Originally posted by ChuckB


                          Pro Bracket and searched long and hard for my bracketed Mako. I think it comes down to type of fishing and how you use your boat. I do alot of bottom fishing in the Gulf of Mexico, and I believe in typical conditions here the best way to stay over a wreck is azz end into chop with boat in reverse to hold over spot. I am much more comfortable doing that with a full transom and bracket than with open transom.

                          We also play alot in our boat with 10 & 12 yr old boys, and whether swimming in the river or playing at sandbars and barrier islands the bracket makes it much easier getting in and out of the boat.

                          I have heard people debate about fishability and landing big fish with a bracketed boat, but we have never had an instance were the bracket made things more challenging. That said we have been trying land land billfish either. I haven't fished my bracketed boat, but I have plenty of experience with friends; Mako's, Regulator, and ProLine.



                          FWIW I landed two billfish on my 238 with 30 class reels. That was with no bracket but there would of been no difference if there was a bracket.
                          1984 Mako 238 WA [br]2015 Suzuki 250 APX[br]Central PA/OCMD[br]http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35081[br]

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                          • #14
                            Pro bracket! I could not imagine going back to transom mounted power. The room and functionality is great
                            [br]1984 Mako 224[br]1977 Mako 15[br]Clermont, Florida- [br]http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37212 -Rewire[br]http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40627 -Tank/Misc[br]http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58615 - Aft Box removal

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                            • #15
                              Armstrong bracket and Yamaha 300

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