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Yamaha F250 clicking/knocking sound

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  • Yamaha F250 clicking/knocking sound

    I'm the second owner of a Yamaha F250 on my 96 232 that was re-powered in 2012. The motor has ~250 hours an has been pretty flawless. Last time out it seemed to be running rough at low RPMs, but seemed ok on plane. I replaced the spark plugs since they were over due. Next time out it wouldn't start. After replacing cranking battery and cables, I got it to start and tried to take it to the water and see how it would run. It started right away, but was still running rough at low rpms and also was making a clicking/knocking sound.

    I figured one of the new plugs wasn't firing so with the motor running, I tried to figure out which cylinder wasn't firing by pulling the spark on one plug at a time. I found one that seemed like it wasn't sparking so to confirm I switched the ignition coil assembly (the part that connects to the spark plug keeping order of firing the same) with a working one to see if that made it better. It didn't, so I went back to the original configuration. Over time, the motor got harder to start, and when running, the knocking seemed to get worse.

    It's strange since I went from running flawlessly, to a loud knock in two outings. Oil level is good. I haven't changed the gear oil yet, but I do so annually. I have no reason to believe there could be an issue there. The engine does turn over, so it isn't seized. After troubleshooting at the dock for a while, I couldn't get it to start after a while, but it's likely due to lots of starting and stopping, so I'm guessing the battery needed a rest. Here is a video of me trying to get it to turn over at the end of my troubleshooting. That clicking sound seems to persist when it was running as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v19JlqIyBm0

    Aside from bringing it to a local yamaha dealer, I'm wondering what options I have to troubleshoot myself? I will pickup the engine cable to read diagnostics etc, so if anyone has tips for what to lookout for that would be extremely helpful. Aside from that I'm stumped.
    1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

  • #2
    Do a compression check before anything else.
    1992 211 w/175 OptiMax
    Glen Campbell, Pa.

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    • #3
      Brought it to the local dealer this afternoon. Water in the cylinders most likely from a stuck open thermostat on the starboard side. Pulled the plugs and water came out of a couple of cylinders. Not good. I'm 6 months out of warranty so also not good...
      1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

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      • #4
        Almost sounds like it was hydrolocking when initially trying to stat, especially if you had water in the motor. What year motor is that? Yami did have problems with the 4 stroke Gen-1 models in that horsepower rating.

        D-
        Current Mqko - 1990 Mako 211 w/2006 250 E-TEC. http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6226. [br]- Previous Makos 1987 20C, 1979 23\' IB, 1970s 17 Angler

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        • #5
          quote:


          Originally posted by sbeausol


          Brought it to the local dealer this afternoon. Water in the cylinders most likely from a stuck open thermostat on the starboard side. Pulled the plugs and water came out of a couple of cylinders. Not good. I'm 6 months out of warranty so also not good...



          Never heard of a stuck t-stat causing water in the cylinders.

          D-
          Current Mqko - 1990 Mako 211 w/2006 250 E-TEC. http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6226. [br]- Previous Makos 1987 20C, 1979 23\' IB, 1970s 17 Angler

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:


            Originally posted by sbeausol


            Brought it to the local dealer this afternoon. Water in the cylinders most likely from a stuck open thermostat on the starboard side. Pulled the plugs and water came out of a couple of cylinders. Not good. I'm 6 months out of warranty so also not good...



            The dealer said water got in the cyl from a stuck t-stat? find a new dealer..

            Take it to Riverfont marine in Salisbury.
            [br]Michael R. Delgado[br]1972 Mako 22[br]http://classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15745[br]1976 Mako 25[br]http://classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18013&SearchTerms=mako,25[br]

            Comment


            • #7
              Motor is a 2011. Hoping to hear more about how this could have happened today or tomorrow. Will update....
              1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

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              • #8
                Ok, here is the update. Failed head gasket. Top right cylinder had a failure in the head gasket. When running it was able to burn off the water but when flushing the motor water eventually was able to get into the exhaust manifold. Gravity eventually brought the water to the lowest cylinder and hydrolocked it bending piston rod and cracking piston head. The hydrolock was a symptom of the head gasket failure and difficult to have caught on such a lightly used motor.
                1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

                Comment


                • #9
                  wow that sucks. Any chance Yamaha will help out at all?
                  1978 Mako 25 - Blind Hog
                  1985 Mako 20c - sold
                  Fort Walton Beach, FL
                  http://www.classicmako.com/forum/top...TOPIC_ID=42841

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am going to find out today/tomorrow
                    quote:


                    Originally posted by Sailor


                    wow that sucks. Any chance Yamaha will help out at all?



                    1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

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                    • #11
                      The motor has been completely torn down, and now it is known how the motor has failed. The summary is that there was a failure of the head gasket on the top right cylinder which for a period of time likely let in water to just that cylinder, but that cylinder was probably burning off the water the entered it.

                      Here is the cylinder. You'll notice it is cleaner than the others (no carbon) because the water kept it 'clean':



                      The failure appears to have been between the head and the head gasket. Based on the corrosion on the head it appears this had been an issue for some time (motor is 5.5 years old), since a hole in the head actually formed. Based on the age and use (




                      It is likely that this issue had persisted for sometime (for example when the motor was under warranty), however it would have been difficult to catch without a leak down test or pulling the head, both of which wouldn't be normal maintenance for a motor of this age and use. This motor had only received recommended annual maintenance since it wasn't hitting more than 50-75 hours of use per year. It got new plugs, oil, grease, thermostats, and gear oil annually.

                      What we think happened next is the hole in the head finally became large enough to allow more water into the cylinder than it could burn off. After the last use, flushing the motor with fresh water likely allowed it to eventually make it into the exhaust, and down the lowest cylinder (left bottom) from gravity. When cranking the next time, that water could have had a chance to make it into the bottom left cylinder, causing it to hydrolock. That state caused the piston head to break in the middle, bent the wrist pin and piston rod, completely destroying the block.





                      I've been working with a local Yamaha dealer on this and they've been great so far. Yamaha gave the go ahead to tear down the motor, and they are going to cover the parts for the repair. It's really great working with a company that stands by their product especially when they could have stood by the warranty expiration as a reason for not stepping up.
                      1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

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                      • #12
                        Parts for the repair -- will they replace the powerhead?
                        ROGUE I[br]1978 235 CC[br]Newburyport, MA[br]ROGUE II[br]1987 17\' Montauk[br]Camden, ME[br]

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                        • #13
                          The complete powerhead including heads etc is going to be replaced. Yamaha is covering that (about $10k in parts). I am on the hook for labor. It's about 1.5 days of labor
                          1996 Mako 232[br]Essex MA

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                          • #14
                            That's great that the dealer got Yamaha to cooperate on a motor out of warranty and very unlike Yamaha. They walked away from hundreds, if not thousands of the early 200-250 4 strokes with a known design issue that corroded and caused catastrophic engine failure. Hopefully learned something from the backlash they received.

                            D-
                            Current Mqko - 1990 Mako 211 w/2006 250 E-TEC. http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6226. [br]- Previous Makos 1987 20C, 1979 23\' IB, 1970s 17 Angler

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds like you have a great dealer working with you as they are the ones that have to sell Yamaha on doing the repair.
                              1978 Mako 25 - Blind Hog
                              1985 Mako 20c - sold
                              Fort Walton Beach, FL
                              http://www.classicmako.com/forum/top...TOPIC_ID=42841

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