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**firetin** · 04-19-2005, 11:56 AM

i just gutted a 1990 23ft cuddy walk around. call me if you need any parts. mark 631 766 7318

quote:

Originally posted by grantn

got to get a full day of work in on the beast today. trying to get rid of the water in the cabin i figured i would start by sealing EVERYTHING [

] and use the excuse to update the style and reinforce a few weak areas.
out with the old.

getting it ready. the plan is to laminate a piece of 1/2" plywood to give a little stiffness and thickness to the left side of the helm and to laminate reinforcement on the inside corners of the bottom opening to the cabin where a crack has developed and to also support the weight of the door. also going to reface the front of the helm with vacuum bagged panels and install a guage panel on the top for a more user friendly installation of the gps, ff, rocker panel and guages. going to convert the bottom of the helm to storage or possibly a new battery location .

i figured i would do all of the grinding now instead of waiting until i needed to so i only itched once until this phase was over. [88]

stiffeners for side of helm and cabin opening

off to the motorcycle races in birmingham this weekend. time to start putting back together next weekend! finally progress!

**grantn** · 04-19-2005, 09:55 PM

actually the only thing going back in the cabin is the 'cabinet' on the port side. all of the cabinetry behind the helm will be replaced by a fiberglass panel with an access hatch.

i laminated the plywood i cut for the side stiffener with a piece of 1 1/2 oz. mat then screwed it in to clamp it. as i'll be covering the whole helm with 1808 so the holes from the screws were no concern.

**grantn** · 04-21-2005, 02:52 PM

pulled the first panel tonite. this is only the second panel i've vacuum bagged but thanks to wart's pics it made it less daunting.

the layup is as follows:

4 oz. fabic, 1708 biax, 1 1/2 oz chopped strand, 2 layers of 2 mm core cell, 1 1/2 oz mat, 1708 biax. this is the piece for the top of the helm. after setting it in a epoxy/cabosil putty i will glass a piece of woven roving to the back side of the helm so it ties in with the exposed part of this panel. should be plenty strong!

i do have one question for you bobby. on the first test panel i pulled i layed up the fabric and the 1708 dry, THEN wet both pieces out. after the piece laid up i noticed on that side there were many places where you could tell the strands were dry. on this panel i tried to eliminate the dry spots by painting the layup board with epoxy then laying in the fabric and coating it with more resin. i then layed up the 1708 and wet it out. this pic is of the second panel and it appears to have the same problem. is it something i'm doing wrong? i screwed up the layup and this is the side that is going to face the old helm so i don't see where the few air pockets there will affect anything.

**RingLeader** · 04-21-2005, 03:00 PM

Sounds like too much vacuum pressure. If its too high, it'll suck too much resin out into the bleeder cloth leaving you with resin starved spots.

Where did you get the vac bagging apparatus? and what are you using for a pump?

**grantn** · 04-21-2005, 03:16 PM

bingo! thanks for the info. i had read where you don't want more than 20 in. of vacuum but never gave a reason why. guess that's why you don't want too much.

i'm using a robinair a/c vacuum pump from my car days. i figured if 20 was ok, the 28 inches it pulled would be better. guess i need a bleeder valve now to reduce the pressure.

trying to get this process down because the more i learn about it, the more and more i'm liking vacuum infusion. seems the least messy way to go and most efficient for saturation and strength/weight ratio.

i wonder if the wife would think i was crazy if i told her i wanted to turn her dryer into an autoclave?

**RingLeader** · 04-21-2005, 03:23 PM

In think Bobby likes to run about 15in Hg

**warthog5** · 04-21-2005, 11:39 PM

Yep, You want 15lb hg on it for that reason. Diab corp uses 15lb hg when they do their pnels at the factory. I don't have the link where I read that.

For a finish cloth on the outside of your layup's I'd suggest 6oz.

There seem's to be little pinholes that will appear in 1808 and I bet 1708 too, if that layer is exposed.

These small pinholes will drive you nuts to get filled. They do me. I've wiped it with fairing putty, sprayed it with lot's of primer to try and fill them.

What happen's is they are so small that the putty goes in and then get's pulled back out with the wiping motion.

The bottom line is they show up after it's been painted. the resign and the 6oz seem to take care of this problem.

It's not nessissary to do for say the inside of a transom layup, but anything you want really slick it is.

You can just poke a small hole thru the bag on the opisite side of the bag that the vacuum port is on to change how much vacuum is pulled.

**grantn** · 04-22-2005, 12:15 AM

thanks for the info. what i was actually going to do was use my a/c guages to get a controlled 'leak' to limit the vacuum. i've seen where they sell vacuum regulator valves but i feel the expense can be spent elsewhere.

i did notice that the 4 oz. was just a little too thin. but will know better next time i need to order. one thing i can honestly say is that the 4 oz. makes a hell of a finish material! if you can afford to take the time and work it right. the funny thing about the whole setup was that i laid the cloth up in the wrong position and now instead of having the smooth side out it will be the bonding surface to the old fiberglass in the helm. not such a big deal as it will take a little more work to smooth it out but as i'll be covering the entire area with 1708 for a finish coat it's just the added time that is a pain.

after explaining the vacuum infusion technique to my dad, he got all gung ho about it and is now running around town trying to find spiral tubing. [(#)] will probably just vacuum bag the second panel for now as the first one came out nearly 'perfect' and use the instrument pod as a guinnea pig for the infusion.

**GradySailfish** · 04-22-2005, 05:24 AM

Firetin, from your tel number I can tell your from Suffolk LI. If you need a hand with your project maybe I can swing over. All these southern fellas help each other out (case of Southern Hospitality) so why shoulden't we yankees.

Quite a few here from LI might I add.

grantn, that fiberglass laminate looks really thin. At first I wondered why you grinded all the gelcoat off, then I realized the helm could use a little re-engineering.

**grantn** · 04-22-2005, 06:09 AM

quote:

Originally posted by GradySailfish

grantn, that fiberglass laminate looks really thin. At first I wondered why you grinded all the gelcoat off, then I realized the helm could use a little re-engineering.

that is exactly why i went that far. after pulling the cabinetry out there was no doubt why there were so many cracks in the forward part of the boat around the cabin. just by putting that one piece of plywood and the stiffener on the outside shored up that one side immensely. the panels i'm laminating for the helm face are 1/4" thick. in addition to the 1/4 to 1/8 inch thickness on the front (except where the steering box mounts which has 3/4 plywood laminated in) it should give about 1/2 to 5/8 in thickness completely around the helm. with the panels screwed inside behind the helm and the port side of the door opening, it should eliminate 70-80% of the flex in the cabin.

**michigan dave** · 04-22-2005, 06:50 AM

Looks to me like your putting some good "armor" in the old tank. I too was amazed at how thin the side console area looked. I bet when your through it will be lots stronger. great pics dave.

**warthog5** · 04-22-2005, 08:47 AM

Hammertime and I were talking one day about a WA cuddy that he was thinking of buying. He said that when they did a seatrial that the whole console shook real bad and had a lot of stress cracks in it.

He didn't like that and backed out of the deal.

Sounds like your going to get the shaking out of it.

[

]

**grantn** · 04-23-2005, 11:58 AM

got a good nite and full day of work so far. got the vacuum thing down (as far as the pressure goes). used my a/c guages to create a vacuum leak and was able to keep it around 15-16 in hg.

mocked up the helm this morning to check the fit. ground down what needed to be ground down.

the front of the helm was as thin as the side

except where the steering pump mounts

here it is laminated and filleted with the screw holes and hole where radio was filled.

the white 'square' on top of the helm is the new cabin hatch being built, that started this whole mess!

here is the inside of the helm.

tomorrow, a little more fairing and filling then start laying the 1708 in addition to the opening reinforcements.

**SeaReel** · 04-24-2005, 02:34 AM

Looks great! Are you going to fill in all of the old holes to make a smooth finish on the back side as well?

Cliff

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