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  • water intrusion

    bear with me please. 1986 238 purchased in april 2002. surveyor at the time said "transoms (a little) wet, but this vintage mako they all are, you have nothing to worry about." there was no flexing of transom at the time. march 04 i, with my very limited skills replaced the support strut on the teak swim platform, drilling and hopefully sealing well the screw holes with 5200. august 04 i lost the silicone waterproofing between the fuel tank access hatch and the deck. by lost i mean it was coming up in pieces and one day i just finally grabbed it and pulled it all up. (i know now, probably stupid). have not done anything about that yet. yes this is going somewhere. i expected to keep this boat a year or two and move up. upon further review, the boat fits my needs perfectly inshore to maybe 15 miles off long island south shore. so now im thinking of upgrading in a few ways thatll help her to fish better. i havent pulled her since march so i havent stood on the engine to test flexing, expect to pull her in late jan for bottom paint, spring checklist. finally, questions. all of a sudden im very worried about water intrusion as my knowledge and comfort level offshore has risen. to seal the deck to access hatch what material should i use? is 4200 too much? just a marine grade sealant? brand names youse guys like? will the mallet test combined with the standing on the engine test show me enough? or should i get a new survey? what im trying to avoid is doing some projects that will maybe run into a few thousand on a boat that may or may not need a fuel tank(i have had no fuel tank issues yet)and may or may not need a transom job. the projects im looking to do include a couple more bilge pumps with better access to the bilge through the splashwell, adding a stronger livewell pump to double as a washdown, rewiring pretty much the whole boat, and upgrading the helm with starboard or some such to flush mount better electronics. yeah probably more than a few thousand, i am not handy enough to do most of this. thank you for your attention. hope your holidays were well. g.
    wantagh, new york 86 238

  • #2
    The very first thing you should begin with, is to forget this idea that you need to scrimp with money on this one. Sorry, I hate to read that people are worried about putting too much in a boat that is used for pleasure. Its all too much money, but its better than drugs, because its legal. [:x)]The transom is very important as its the life line for you to return home on, when those calm days turn into rough ones on the return trip. You are conveying to us that your confidence level is increasing with your boating habits.

    So in that mindset keep in mind, maintainance must be the next stage you must address and understand that with the hours of enjoyment your boat is giving you, many more, in proportion is required to give you those limited amounts of successful trips you have enjoyed up to now.

    If you know there is a problem, fix it, not patch it. If you stern is wet and mushy, then tackle this in the off season, even if it means ripping it out. To replace an outboard motor, on a boat, that takes a dump, will cost you bunches of money and could cost you your life. The transom did not get any better in two years time., 5200 does not stick well to wet fiberglass and even to wet wood.

    Next the hatch that has had nothing sealing it, has also taken water in, either it be fresh or salt water, requiring further looking to see if any build up of corrossion has developed, along with any water that maybe laying in the dead spaces, if any around the tanks. If you are also dealing with the original fuel lines, on the original tanks, I would strongly recommend you change those out, even if it means a little cutting that maybe involved in doing so. SOme of the other guys will be able to give you more information on the access or the lack of on this job.

    Any areas in the aft section that you can see through deck hatches, take a small hammer and pound of the tabs of glass, along the stringers, and see if you have any delamination. The sound of delamination will be a high pitch, versus a low pitch for solid adhesion.

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    • #3
      oyster, perhaps my rambling tone mis represented my concerns. safety is my number one priority. ive asked for advice from people more knowledgable than me. nowhere did i state that i know i have a problem. nowhere did i state that my transom is soft and mushy. nowhere have i stated that the 5200 was applied to seal wet fiberglass or wood. thank you for your advice.
      wantagh, new york 86 238

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      • #4
        Perhaps this can help you. Sure you can run into a few thousand bucks by redoing the transom and fuel tank. A few more bucks on rewiring, new pump, and the dash. It sounds as though you do not have all the skills to do this and that you will end up paying a shop to do it. Not the end of the earth by any strech. BUT, when you are done, you will have something that you can be proud of. Remember, anybody can go out and buy new(er). Is that what you really want? To look like everyone else on the water with newer and shiney with payments or riding a classic.

        As for myself, I rewired the whole boat, added new electronics, built the new dash panels, and repowered. Picking up the boat on Tuesday with the new t top. While I think my skills are better than most but not to the level of Ringleader, Worthog, and a few others around here I still don't think I'd rip out my own transom if it were needed. Perhaps a new survey is in order to make up your mind to keep it or update it. We hope you choose that later, that's why we are here[]
        2003 Boston Whaler 255 Conquest w/ twin 200 HPDI\'s. MA & ME

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        • #5
          I take it that my reply appeared a bit harsh to you. So lets just go back and look at your original post, in depth here.

          You state you have absolutely no idea of the hull condition:
          quote:


          what im trying to avoid is doing some projects that will maybe run into a few thousand on a boat that may or may not need a fuel tank(i have had no fuel tank issues yet)and may or may not need a transom job.



          You state your transom had some water issues, which has not been addressed in over two years, and from your post, its sitting in the water now.
          quote:


          april 2002. surveyor at the time said "transoms (a little) wet,



          This says its still in the water?
          quote:


          i havent pulled her since march so i havent stood on the engine to test flexing, expect to pull her in late jan for bottom paint, spring checklist
          quote:



          The transom is still wet, and quite possibly getting worse with age. 5200 will not bond to an existing wet surface.
          quote:


          nowhere have i stated that the 5200 was applied to seal wet fiberglass or wood.



          You original post includes:
          quote:


          I, with my very limited skills replaced the support strut on the teak swim platform, drilling and hopefully sealing well the screw holes with 5200. august 04



          The water, and moisture has already intruded into your laminates and possibley into the lower regions of your hull, ending up around and possibly on your fuel tank. I assume, without you telling us, that you boat in saltwater?
          quote:


          i mean it was coming up in pieces and one day i just finally grabbed it and pulled it all up.



          In your own words, you now have some concerns as to the real condition of your boat, and its structual parts of it.

          [quote]all of a sudden im very worried about water intrusion as my knowledge and comfort level offshore has risen.



          This is the last thing you need to be doing in lieu of addressing the real concerns you have stated in your original post. All of this is chunk change and a waste, to the actual avenue that you need to be going in my humble but blunt opinion. I have not looked at your hull, but only took you at your words.

          [quote]rewiring pretty much the whole boat, and upgrading the helm with starboard or some such to flush mount better electronics. yeah probably more than a few thousand,




          I repeat that I only read your post. Feel free to tell me how you can justify new wiring, elctronics, and window dressing, when the unknown lurks from under the skin of this boat. Good day asnd happy boating.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oyster, You sound like a lawyer, but I have to admit that you fairly responded to his post......good job! Tony
            79 Mako 23[br]85 Wellcraft 18 fisherman[br]Hammond, La.

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            • #7
              quote:


              Originally posted by spectrout77


              Oyster, You sound like a lawyer, but I have to admit that you fairly responded to his post......good job! Tony



              Not hardly. Thanks.

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              • #8
                ok oyster, ill start by retracting my bitch-like attitude. i took your initial response as pretty condescending and didnt appreciate it. im over it. i just re read my initial post and it really doesnt represent what im trying to find out. from reading this forum obviously these vintage makos have water in the transom issues and fuel cell issues. my craft has shown no OBVIOUS signs of these issues (smell of gas in the bilge, flexing in the transom, soft decks). i dont want to get a surveyor to tell me what i can find out for myself. youre correct i want to get a better idea of whats going on below decks. if i pull the fuel access hatch and check for standing water in the 'coffin', and any obvious leaks or odors, is that enough? if its dry and no gas smell, should i just seal and leave well enough alone? if the transom passes the 'excessive flexing' test and the mallet test will a couple months on the hard sufficiently dry out the "little wet" transom or are more drastic measures needed? ie getting her inside and putting heat lamps in the bilge. and just for the record. the rewiring on a 19 year old hull doesnt need to be justified. the helm and electronics do. you are correct there. mist-rest, thank you for your color. the reason im asking these perhaps nebulous questions is that i have no interest in buying a new craft. this boat is a classic and more than that, with the proper care i think is stronger and better made than the stuff i see when crawling around at the boat shows. thank you all for your responses and have a happy new year. g.
                wantagh, new york 86 238

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                • #9
                  Sounds like a new survey is in order. Pull the boat do you're tests but a survey will give you the peace of mind it sounds you're looking for. Just my 2cents.

                  SB

                  PS; try and find a surveyor that will elaborate on what "a little wet" might mean.
                  Tim[br]1981 19 (project)[br]prior 1978 17 angler (sold)[br]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Let me just reply with a few lines. Its has been the experience of many here and with many people in the repair industry, that over time, the percentages of good left in a small boat hull, of your boats age, is marginal, at best, unless proper care has been taken, overtime to store and protect and baby a small boat hull of fiberglass. Its not to say that you do not have a hull, even with the original equipment in it, and on it, without anything ever being done, will not last you a few more years and then some. Uour description is not much different than most here have found in their hulls.

                    Many times, once folks begin to explore deeper into these hulls, begin to see areas that will need attention. Its very hard for many to see through shine, as having any defects below the surface. History will also tell us that seldom is the case, that if you are having the issues now, that you describe, that you are not long for some digging out of original items of the hull, that you have described as being in lines with what many here have found upon taking a few moments to dig a little deeper than what has been done, in your case. Keep in mind, the hulls that being built today, unless you begin by paying 60 to 80 grand for a new one, will have the same components in them, as you have now in your hull.

                    You have two choices, take the time to make this hull new again, at such time spending 10 to 20 percent less than a new one, and in some cases with folks end up with no boat payments, as so many do in new hulls. Most wifes and families can budget spending for a project, a little at a time, than having a financed boat sitting in the yard, on a trailer, or in a boat slip, not being used, than a project of your choosing and layouts, and having something unigue and different, as in so many cases here.

                    I only fix them, so I speak from the insides of the hulls, and not from the boatshow aspect of them. When I go out, I want to be able to subject them to the the worse case scenerios, in preportion to the hull sizes and construction, since I have been caught in the worse of ways. But at the end of a day, I want to feel confident in my equipment. This makes me more extreme in my obsession for having it right for me. I like to show off my boats too, even if it has a stinky fiberglass hull underneath of all that glits and gingerbread. [8D]

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                    • #11
                      FYI, in case you did not see this topic. Regards

                      http://www.classicmako.com/forum/top...?TOPIC_ID=2457

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                      • #12
                        You can pull the cap off of the fuel tank and check for moisture saturated foam around the tank... If the foam is wet... the tank will surely have problems in the near future. You might have to dig some of the foam out along side of the tank and down to the bottom of the coffin to get a really good idea about the condition of the foam/tank. You can bet that if the foam is wet... the tanks days are numbered.

                        Transom... Nothing will dry out a wet transom. There is so much moisture trapped inside the wood which is 99% encapsulated in fiberglass (1% is left for the area that leaked[]) you'll never get it to dry out. Your best bet is to drill som small holes... say 1/8" to 3/16" and look at the shavings and whether or not water drains out of the hole. I'd drill these holes near/below where the swim platform is mounted, thruhull fittings, trim tabs, and motor mounts... Drill them onthe inside and you can just inject som epoxy resin to seal it over if the results are okay. If the wood shavings are golden and dry you are okay... If black, moist, and mushy.... you have trouble brewing.
                        Slidell, LA 1993 Mako 261B - Temperance

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                        • #13
                          thank you all for your responses. oyster u and i have the same philosophy for what thats worth. boat will be out in a week and some relatively hard decisions will be made. thank you.
                          wantagh, new york 86 238

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                          • #14
                            Gebby-

                            A reputable surveyor that has moisture meter....and more importantly.... knows how to interpret it, in my opinion, is money well spent. I recently purchased an '89 250 cuddy with similar issues. The transom checked out fine, but as with your boat the sealant around the tank hatch was seriously deteriorated. Rather than just re-seal the hatch, I pulled the deck for inspection and found that all fuel lines were in need of replacement. No evidence of tank leakage was found, so the tank stayed. I removed the wet foam and dried the rest best as possible. Re-sealed deck using quality marine silicon. I would stay away from the 5200/4200, it will make a tough job harder if & when the deck has to come up again.
                            \'89 Mako 250 Cuddy[br]Stratford, CT

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                            • #15
                              Don't use silicone.. It deteriorates in 1-2 years. Use 3M 101. Its not an adhesive like 4200/5200.

                              I used the 3M 101 inthe bottom of the lip on a tank job I did not long ago... Then around the top edge I used 4200. I'll be able to cut the 4200 bead with a utility knife and then the 3M 101 will break free with a little pressure.
                              Slidell, LA 1993 Mako 261B - Temperance

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